ALL UNIVERSITIES AND SERVICE COMMISSIONS PAST PAPERS IN PAKISTAN: Re: ::: vuaskari.com ::: Dr. Naveed Malik's reply about paper pattern

Wednesday, August 24, 2011

Re: ::: vuaskari.com ::: Dr. Naveed Malik's reply about paper pattern

Agreed Rizwan Siddiqui

no further mail in this thread ll be entrtained further

thread closed

Admin Binish

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Rizwan Siddiqui <mc100200907@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

I think some people are using doctor naveed's name as i called him from saudi arabai and he said he has not replied such emails.
All these replies are fake.
I request admin of the group to take action against fake news.

Regards.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 7:47 AM, bc090400369 Muhammad Iaz Ahmad <bc090400369@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

Plz anyone can provide me reactors mail id i shall be thankful for this kindness

On 8/22/11, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually after my first semester, paper pattern was still long.
>
> Secondly, I discussed this issue for the first time when it was my 5th
> semester, but most students didn't agree with me at that time.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:21 PM, mc100201283 Fakhar Ul Mushtaq <
> mc100201283@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
>
>> Dear,
>>
>> I sure will contact rector when it is time to do so. Good for you to send
>> the email after your 8 semesters. The email would have been nicer after
>> your
>> first semester.
>> Thanks and Good luck in your future endeavors.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Muhammad Umair <
>> muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear, as per your thinking MCQs are good choice for paper pattern. OK
>>>
>>> As per my thinking long questions are good paper pattern. OK
>>>
>>> I conveyed my thoughts to rector with the reasons. OK
>>>
>>> You can convey your thoughts to the rector with arguments favoring MCQs.
>>> OK
>>>
>>> Secondly, it isn't that I don't want students to get good marks. Students
>>> used to get good marks even in long paper pattern. What I have concern is
>>> that MOST students get such marks with MCQs paper pattern that they
>>> actually
>>> don't deserve. This happened with me too on a number of occasions when I
>>> got
>>> more marks than I actually deserved.
>>>
>>> You can get clue from my email to rector that in which semester I can be.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 7:42 PM, mc100201283 Fakhar Ul Mushtaq <
>>> mc100201283@vu.edu.pk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And why are you doing all this? Do you not want to get more marks and
>>>> you
>>>> just want to be a trouble maker? Or perhaps you don't want other
>>>> students to
>>>> get good marks. Which semester are you in?
>>>>
>>>> It is proven in the world that MCQs can better judge students ability,
>>>> that is why it is the most common/popular pattern for exams all over the
>>>> world. 95% of the entry tests including prestigious universities are
>>>> MCQs,
>>>> can you give me a reason why???
>>>>
>>>> The reason is that If the questions are longer then you are covering may
>>>> be 10% of the material. By using MCQs you can cover up to 60 - 70%.
>>>>
>>>> What you should have argued was to not repeat the MCQs. Also another
>>>> problem with subjective question is that now it is subject to the
>>>> understanding of the person who is checking your papers. Unless it is
>>>> the
>>>> same person who is going to check all the tests for that particular
>>>> subject,
>>>> you can never guarantee that all the students will be given marks at the
>>>> same level.
>>>>
>>>> As far as degradation is concerned, it has nothing to do with the paper
>>>> pattern. This is just the way it is with the long distance learning. It
>>>> is a
>>>> fact that the long distance learning, will never be recognized at the
>>>> same
>>>> level as the regular universities. Do you think making the subjective
>>>> paper
>>>> will guarantee better jobs? When you are out in the market to get the
>>>> job,
>>>> It is up to the student's capability. It doesn't matter if you have
>>>> good
>>>> marks or not, practical life is different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Muhammad Umair <
>>>> muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Assalam o Alaikum
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr. Naveed didn't agree too much with me that change of paper pattern
>>>>> lead to degradation of VU. But, I did give him suggestions about paper
>>>>> pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here was what I wrote to him about paper pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, please do something of this exam pattern. MCQs paper pattern is
>>>>> not
>>>>> a good paper pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>> Students get too much marks in this subjects. Too many even though they
>>>>> don't know that particular subject that well. It happened with me on a
>>>>> number of occasions too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, I will give you a little example which I also give to my fellow
>>>>> students to tell them that MCQs paper pattern is not a good paper
>>>>> pattern
>>>>> and we get more marks than actually we deserve.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, I took admission in VU in Fall 2007 semester. Sir, at that time, I
>>>>> observed by seeing results of different subjects that how much
>>>>> difficult or
>>>>> easy a particular subject is. I saw the final term result of Financial
>>>>> Management (MGT201) in Spring 2008 semester and noted that there were
>>>>> almost
>>>>> 70% students who failed in this subject. No other subject had higher
>>>>> percentage than this. I considered this subject the most difficult
>>>>> subject
>>>>> that was being taught at VU. And I remember highest marks in that
>>>>> subject in
>>>>> that semester were 77 or 78. But no one got A grade. This happened when
>>>>> only
>>>>> 10-15% portion was of MCQs and rest of the questions were
>>>>> long/theoretical/numerical questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, when I see the result of this subject now a days of other
>>>>> students.
>>>>> They get A grade very very easily. How it is possible? Also, you can
>>>>> check
>>>>> the percentage of students who fail now in this subject and compare it
>>>>> with
>>>>> percentage of students who failed when there was long questions paper
>>>>> pattern. You will come up with a huge difference.
>>>>>
>>>>> I only talked about Financial Management above. However, you can also
>>>>> compare percentages of other subjects that I considered too much
>>>>> difficult
>>>>> by seeing their results. Some of them are Research Methods, Assembly
>>>>> Lanauge, Statistics, Calculus, and many others.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, students see past papers and just memorize MCQs (most of
>>>>> students),
>>>>> attend the exam and manage to pass it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, no one can at least memorize long questions, especially numerical
>>>>> questions can't be memorized. One has to practice them to learn.
>>>>> Furthermore, luck can work in MCQs but not in long questions. One can
>>>>> tick
>>>>> mark any option of MCQ and that option can turn out to be correct. But
>>>>> to
>>>>> write answers of numerical questions one has to practice and learn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, I have even seen such students who don't know how to compute
>>>>> derivatives and integration in Calculus and still they pass MTH101
>>>>> subject.
>>>>> This never happened in long questions paper pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, I have seen such students who don't know how to make a balance
>>>>> sheet or profit and loss account and still they manage to pass MGT101
>>>>> Financial Accounting.
>>>>>
>>>>> same can be observed with other subjects too...
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, MCQs also affected some of my subjects. I got more marks in some
>>>>> subjects when I didn't knew subject that very well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope, you will look into my suggestions about exam pattern.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> and see his reply..
>>>>>
>>>>> Umair,
>>>>>
>>>>> You have made your case quite strongly. I will look into the
>>>>> statistics for the various courses you have mentioned. Changing the
>>>>> proportion of MCQs vs Essay type questions is very doable and will not
>>>>> cause any problems (except perhaps, a longer grading time).
>>>>>
>>>>> Please also let me have your comments about the long/essay/numerical
>>>>> questions. Are they up to the mark or are they too easy also?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I replied as follows... (check my suggestion about the fact that
>>>>> students don't cheat in assignments)
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, here are my comments about Long, theoretical and/or numerical
>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, I will talk about such questions that are given both in
>>>>> assignments
>>>>> and exams.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's talk about assignments first. Sir, I have observed that many
>>>>> instructors don't provide such questions in assignments that can judge
>>>>> the
>>>>> ability of students. They give quite simple questions on occasions.
>>>>> Sir,
>>>>> when I studied CS410 (Visual Programming) course two semesters ago. It
>>>>> was
>>>>> second assignment (I think) of this course, instructor gave a question
>>>>> to
>>>>> write a program and that program was NOTHING. Sir, we were given to
>>>>> write a
>>>>> program of which a similar coded example was given in handouts and you
>>>>> know
>>>>> what we had to do of ourselves to complete that assignment. We were
>>>>> just
>>>>> required to change the text in double quotes "Hello World" to "Student
>>>>> Name:
>>>>> this and VUID: this". Furthermore, most of assignments in that semester
>>>>> contained questions in which we were asked to write answers to
>>>>> theoretical
>>>>> questions instead of programs. Sir, theory does have importance in
>>>>> Programming, but this does not mean that we should give all importance
>>>>> to
>>>>> theory and very little importance to programming.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Secondly Sir, I have a suggestion about assignments of some subjects.
>>>>> Sir, there is a homework helping website of U.S.A. www.cramster.com. It
>>>>> has been more than a year that I help that community in their questions
>>>>> related to Mathematics. Sir, having spent much time on that website, I
>>>>> noted
>>>>> many things of U.S.A.'s education that I think can be applied without
>>>>> any
>>>>> difficulty to our VU education as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, once I saw a question posted on that website which was in somewhat
>>>>> following format.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Solve the following system of Linear Equations.
>>>>>
>>>>>

>>>>> *x*1 + *x*2 = 5
>>>>>
>>>>> 2*x*1 + 3*x*2 = *a *(where *a *is the last digit of your student ID)

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, VU instructors can also ask such questions in assignments (to
>>>>> avoid
>>>>> copy among students). This may not work in all subjects, but this will
>>>>> definitely work in many subjects like in Calculus, Differential
>>>>> Equations,
>>>>> Linear Algebra, Numerical Analysis, Discrete Maths, Statistics etc.
>>>>> etc.
>>>>> This will also work in some selective topics of Data Structures,
>>>>> Algorithms,
>>>>> Automata. I can't say about MGT courses but those who are expert in MGT
>>>>> subjects can definitely tell you whether such approach will work in
>>>>> such
>>>>> subjects or not.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, let's come to such type of questions in exams. Sir, I am much
>>>>> satisfied with long questions asked in exams. But, I noted from past
>>>>> two or
>>>>> three semesters that in many subjects long questions of 10 marks have
>>>>> disappeared and they have been replaced by questions of 5 marks. I
>>>>> think,
>>>>> long questions of 10 marks need to come back in exams too.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sir, you are right that increasing number of long questions will
>>>>> definitely require more time to check answers. I think the only choice
>>>>> for
>>>>> VU will be to increase the number of tutors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Umair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fellows, what you think now about paper pattern? Dr. naveed malik is
>>>>> looking into statistics that I mentioned in my email about MGT201
>>>>> course and
>>>>> also many others. It is damn true.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope, we will see long paper pattern again in VU.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: happy.gif]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future".
>>>>> Wish you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
>>>>> To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
>>>>> Visit these groups:
>>>>> This (Main) Group:
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
>>>>> MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
>>>>> HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
>>>>> Banking Group:
>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
>>>>> Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
>>>>> Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
>>>>> MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future".
>>>> Wish you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
>>>> To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
>>>> Visit these groups:
>>>> This (Main) Group:
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
>>>> MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
>>>> HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
>>>> Banking Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
>>>> Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
>>>> Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
>>>> MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future".
>>> Wish you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
>>> To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
>>> Visit these groups:
>>> This (Main) Group:http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
>>> MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
>>> HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
>>> Banking Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
>>> Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
>>> Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
>>> MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en
>>>
>>
>> --
>> We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future".
>> Wish you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
>> To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
>> Visit these groups:
>> This (Main) Group:http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
>> MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
>> HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
>> Banking Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
>> Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
>> Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
>> MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en
>>
>
> --
> We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future". Wish
> you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
> To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
> Visit these groups:
> This (Main) Group:http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
> MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
> HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
> Banking Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
> Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
> Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
> MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en
>

--
We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future". Wish you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
Visit these groups:
This (Main) Group:http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
Banking Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en

--
We say, "Be one as Pakistani Nation and grow up for Pakistan's Future". Wish you all the best. Join www.vuaskari.com,
To post to this group, send email to vuaskari_com@googlegroups.com
Visit these groups:
This (Main) Group:http://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_com?hl=en?hl=en
MIT/MCS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vu_askarimit?hl=en?hl=en
HRM Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_hrm?hl=en?hl=en
Banking Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_banking?hl=en?hl=en
Management: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mgt?hl=en
Marketing: https://groups.google.com/group/vuaskari_mkt?hl=en
MIS Group: http://groups.google.com/group/askari_mis?hl=en